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Michele Bachmann Would Consider Lowering Minimum Wage To Match The Cost Of Labor Overseas

I have be saying for a while that no matter how badly Obama fucks up, whomever emerges from the GOP primaries will be so fucking batshit they'll terrify the electorate into re-electing him.
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Comments

badnewswade
Aug. 28th, 2011 10:15 pm (UTC)
"Emotion and prejudice" - you poor fool.

No wonder your economy's fucked. You really do practice every man for himself and devil take the hindmost (except for connected businessfolk of course).

Well, that little experiment isn't working out too well, is it? Half the country doesn't have a pot to piss in - and you even want to take the pot off them (that they don't have).

You people are insane. You're like a cargo cult that keeps trying the same old rituals - worship the flag, elect a crazed right wing monster, beat up poor people, but the rituals don't work because the world is a more complicated place than you think it is - the economy isn't a god to be worshipped but a tool to serve humanity. People aren't only valuable as servants for the rich; there's a whole universe beyond the narrow confines of money-worship, avarice and self-serving charity.

Like I say, money isn't a god, it's a tool. People aren't your slaves to be disposed of as you wish - they're human beings with as much right to a decent life as you.

You forget all this and fall into a narcisst's world of madness, where you really believe you're the centre of the universe because you've amassed more little bits of green paper with pictures of dead politicians on them than anyone else. And a lot of good that'll do you when you're dead.

Well, you keep mouthing your cute little homilies and living in the 19th century; the rest of the world has stuff to do.
gwendally
Aug. 28th, 2011 10:25 pm (UTC)
You are on quite a riff talking about stuff that you feel very strongly about. But you're not talking to me, you know. I already TOLD you that I'm kind and generous. I feel moved to acts of mercy. I give my time and treasure to help the poor in literal as well as figurative ways.

Money is not my god. I don't elect crazed right wing monsters (or humans, either.) I have never beaten up a poor person. I live in an INTENSELY complex world that I navigate using the tools of thought and reason and debate and consideration because I find that emotion and prejudice steer me wrong.

I actively work for social justice in a variety of domains. Can you say the same thing?

And yet, despite being kind and generous, well-educated and thoughtful, I disagree with you on the possible benefits of reducing the minimum wage.

MUST you insist that I'm horrible? Is there ANY possible other explanation that you can conceive of why people of good will might disagree?
badnewswade
Aug. 29th, 2011 01:52 pm (UTC)
Compassion is an emotion.
gwendally
Aug. 29th, 2011 02:11 pm (UTC)
Compassion is not just an emotion, it's a virtue. But, as in other emotions, it pays to govern it with reason.

Compassion is something I strive to combine with wisdom. When I am moved to compassion - which is often - I often find myself thinking about the root causes of the problem.

Women cannot afford school fees for their children in Africa because they have to spend all day toting water. To help them be more economically productive I spend money on building wells in villages in Africa. The women spend less time toting water, can grow a kitchen garden to feed their kids more nutritious food, and it cuts down on diseases from standing water.

Would you just pay their specific kid's school fees? My way helps the whole village for ever after.

Compassion is a worthy instinct but you need to stop and check with reason. You can give a man a fish or you can teach him to fish. They both have merit.

Have you asked yourself why you're so CERTAIN that I'm awful? I'm not. Really I'm not. I'm kind and generous, compassionate and thoughtful, smart and productive.

Why aren't you happy that people like me have the same goals you do?

Do you understand that you are NOT part of the solution when you just go off on emotional prejudices when people try to use reason to get at root causes?
badnewswade
Aug. 29th, 2011 09:03 pm (UTC)
PS you left out "modest".

Have you ever entertained the possiblity that you're not the one who gets to decide whether you're "kind and generous", much less "compassionate and thoughtful"?

As for "smart and productive" - you can't be that productive if you have to lower the living standards of your employees below even that required by American law!
gwendally
Aug. 28th, 2011 10:46 pm (UTC)
What do YOU think of the idea that low-value workers would have a better shot at employment if the minimum wage were lowered?
badnewswade
Aug. 29th, 2011 01:53 pm (UTC)
That's what gives you away - that phrase: "low value workers".

So very, very revealing.
gwendally
Aug. 29th, 2011 02:12 pm (UTC)
We are specifically DISCUSSING the value of their economic output. Seriously, get a grip. Of COURSE they have worth as human beings. But, there's this tiny detail, see, that they actually don't have skills that anyone wants to pay them $10/hour for.

So, how do you address THAT?
gwendally
Aug. 29th, 2011 02:28 pm (UTC)
Do you realize that you are frantically clinging to reasons to re-enforce your prejudicial hatred of me? You're accusing me of not valuing human life - despite my earlier discussion of the value of Bangledeshi children relative to Kansas children.

Try to use your brain. Hold thoughts in consecutive order. Assume the person conversing with you is of equal goodwill.

Give it a try. You'd be amazed at the world it opens up.

The world is hard and complex and intertwined and there is almost never a single right answer to anything.
gwendally
Aug. 29th, 2011 02:32 pm (UTC)
So, what method would you suggest to help people with low-value skills to become better able to trade their time and energy and skills for things they want?
badnewswade
Aug. 29th, 2011 08:29 pm (UTC)
- want
+ need

or are food and rent "luxuries" on your planet?

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